tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21487528.post2062529789292608298..comments2023-08-19T23:23:19.849+10:00Comments on Sentire cum Ecclesia: If Original Sin has been removed from baptised parents, how come their kids still get it?Schützhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05026181010471282505noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21487528.post-45366828112674293012007-08-29T03:00:00.000+10:002007-08-29T03:00:00.000+10:00the latest paper from the International Theologica...<I>the <B>latest</B> paper from the International Theological Commission</I><BR/><BR/>That pretty much says it all about how Catholics do their Theology.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21487528.post-54622973533954290192007-08-28T21:27:00.000+10:002007-08-28T21:27:00.000+10:00Thanks Dixie. More on this would be interesting. A...Thanks Dixie. More on this would be interesting. <BR/><BR/>And some question has been raised, in the latest paper from the International Theological Commission, as to whether original sin alone (without actual sin) does in fact necessarily condemn one to eternal damnation.Schützhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05026181010471282505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21487528.post-86887757015007455292007-08-28T03:07:00.000+10:002007-08-28T03:07:00.000+10:00Here's what the Catechism says:Although it is prop...Here's what the Catechism says:<BR/><BR/><I>Although it is proper to each individual, <B>original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam's descendants.</B> It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ's grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.</I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21487528.post-66375146925508997052007-08-27T22:02:00.000+10:002007-08-27T22:02:00.000+10:00Late on this discussion as usual but I certainly d...Late on this discussion as usual but I certainly don't understand the statement <I>Eastern Christians don't hold to original sin either.</I> We do understand there to be original (some call it ancestral) sin...we just don't understand it in the same way as in the west. We don't believe in imputed guilt.Dixiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08511317203353075644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21487528.post-1247009157296040052007-08-25T17:17:00.000+10:002007-08-25T17:17:00.000+10:00Eastern Christians (do you fall in that camp Lucia...<I>Eastern Christians (do you fall in that camp Lucian?) don't hold to original sin either</I>. <BR/><BR/>I'm glad You know this, Mr. Schuetz ... `cause I've been an Orthodox believer my entire life, and I've <B>only recently</B> (`bout 2 yrs. ago) found it out ... via the Net, by all means! -- Yeah, yeah, yeah, ... I know ... real pathetic, huh? [OK, guys, have all the fun You want about it, and just laugh Your socks off about this, and then we'll maybe continue this discussion later, ... OK?]. Bye!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21487528.post-91168366431326363842007-08-25T08:03:00.000+10:002007-08-25T08:03:00.000+10:00Great discussion guys. Keep it up. Honestly, I thi...Great discussion guys. Keep it up. <BR/><BR/>Honestly, I think the statement "concupiscence carries original sin" is problematic too--I used it because I didn't want to say that "before baptism, concupiscence is sin", because we know (as I have stated) that there are only two types of sin: original and actual--and Eastern Christians (do you fall in that camp Lucian?) don't hold to original sin either.<BR/><BR/>I need to check this one out a bit further I think. But what we can agree on is that Augustine did not mean by his statement that concupiscence after baptism really is sin but simply not imputed. He meant it really isn't sin. Full stop.Schützhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05026181010471282505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21487528.post-65028932067466822982007-08-25T04:32:00.000+10:002007-08-25T04:32:00.000+10:00The statement still remaines problematic.The statement still remaines problematic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21487528.post-90698370329544621572007-08-25T04:08:00.000+10:002007-08-25T04:08:00.000+10:00Baptism alone renders concupiscence "not sin". Unl...<I>Baptism alone renders concupiscence "not sin". Unlike original sin, purity from sin cannot be inherited by offspring through conception.</I><BR/><BR/>So am I understanding correctly, that post-Baptismal concupiscence in Catholic doctrine is the "inclination" to sin but is in and of itself not "actual sin" whereas Lutherans would view it as "actual" sin that God forgives for Christ's sake?<BR/><BR/>That does make it seem like there are "three" types of sin.<BR/><BR/><I>concupiscence carries original sin --</I> <BR/><BR/>But the full context was:<BR/><BR/><I><B>Without baptism,</B> concupiscence carries original sin and leads to actual sin.</I><BR/><BR/>We are all subject to concupiscence since the Fall.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21487528.post-47260419492747725222007-08-25T03:49:00.000+10:002007-08-25T03:49:00.000+10:00concupiscence carries original sin -- This stateme...<I>concupiscence carries original sin</I> -- This statement is very problematic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21487528.post-5529340880472731172007-08-25T03:26:00.000+10:002007-08-25T03:26:00.000+10:00Lucian, I don't think I can answer that until you ...Lucian, I don't think I can answer that until you clarify your original post above; I'm not quite sure what it is you are saying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21487528.post-53865831354152936592007-08-25T02:02:00.000+10:002007-08-25T02:02:00.000+10:00And why in God's Holy Name does it do THAT, Christ...And why in God's Holy Name does it do THAT, Christine? -- Just curious.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21487528.post-80835018115059348172007-08-25T00:23:00.000+10:002007-08-25T00:23:00.000+10:00Christ did not receive his purity from sin from hi...<I>Christ did not receive his purity from sin from his immaculate mother; on the contrary, she received her immaculate condition from him. Without baptism, concupiscence carries original sin and leads to actual sin.</I><BR/><BR/>Makes perfect sense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21487528.post-59129319640645724452007-08-24T20:27:00.000+10:002007-08-24T20:27:00.000+10:00I myself never thought at this while having my own...I myself never thought at this while having my own battle to believe in original sin. -- still, I think I would've thought at concupiscence. (But concupiscence as a sin was also one of these problems -- though I was quite an [extremely sinful] gnostic for the larger part of my life).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com