Really sick of this.
There is an entry on Lito's blog repeating a statement in a combox from Mild Colonial Boy on his blog where someone dared to challenge him to "come home" to Rome (ROTFL!). This is the comment:
Sir,Here is my reply:
Going back to Rome? Has the Church of Rome stopped opposing the Biblical doctrine of justification by faith alone? Has it stopped issuing indulgences for works? Has it stopped forbidding priests to marry (the doctrine of demons)? Has it stopped the virtual goddess worship of idolatrous Mariolatry and putting other intermediaries, other than Jesus, between God and Man? Has the Pope stopped propping up these and other Anti-Christian positions?
The answer is no.
Dear Evangelical brothers,
I am sorry to interupt your little anti-Catholic dialogue by inserting the views of a true blue dinky di ozzie cobber wombie Roman.
It is so easy to repeat old slanders and slogans -- it means you never really have to grapple with the fact that your brother in Christ also has some share in the truth...
Has the Church of Rome stopped opposing the Biblical doctrine of justification by faith alone?
I just love the confidence with which it is asserted that "the" biblical doctrine of justification is justification by faith "ALONE". I just love the way this is maintained despite the fact that the doctrine is unsupported by any biblical author, in fact, even denied by one.
Has it stopped issuing indulgences for works?
I was under the impression that indulgences were issued for the grace of Christ and the forgiveness of sins. Deary me. How could I be so mistaken?
Has it stopped forbidding priests to marry (the doctrine of demons)?
Until recently, there were many careers and offices in society that required celibacy, including nurses, teachers, university professors, and a whole range of jobs in which it was recognised that celibacy befitted the calling. Doctrine of demons?
Has it stopped the virtual goddess worship of idolatrous Mariolatry and putting other intermediaries, other than Jesus, between God and Man?
It doesn't matter how many times we deny that we worship Mary and the saints, you are going to keep asserting that we do. Ho hum. It does get tiresome. And the assertion that we place "other" mediators between us and God aside from Jesus. Well, my dear friend, so do you. Think about it next time you ask someone to pray for you. (If you don't mind, I will pray for you, but is that coming between you and Jesus if I do?)
Has the Pope stopped propping up these and other Anti-Christian positions?
I am sorry, but it does seem to be to be awfully uncharitable, and not to say blasphemous, to make such accusations about your fellow Christians and witnesses to Christ.
Charity first. Charity second. And Charity third. Apart from Charity you are as a clanging gong and a sounding symbol. Go read 1 Cor 13. Read, Learn and inwardly digest, as they say.
posted by Schütz @ 10:44 pm
9 Comments
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9 Comments:
Well shucks, David, some folks are not only blasting Catholics they're even turning on other Lutherans, to wit:
The Lutheran confessional remnant are standing up against apostasy within the broader Lutheran churches!
If only I had a dollar for every time someone accused me of "worshipping" Mary (to whom I have a loving devotion, nonetheless, as my blessed Mother and Mother of the Church).
Sigh.
I tend to have a fairly strong devotion to my own mother, for that matter. As a kid, I was even known to pray to her and ask her to pray for me! Deary me, perhaps I was a latent Catholic (not a real Lutheran) even in my infancy!
David
Somehow, I think we won't have to put up with it for much longer - in historical terms anyway. By the end of the 21st century, this kind of Christian thinking will all but disappear.
The kind of hermeneutic displayed there is a purely modern product, and is only thinkable in the cultural milieu of modernity. As modernity disappears (it isn't called late modernity for nothing), so will this kind of Christianity.
This has been brought home to me forcefully by the gradual breakup of the Anglican Church. The splits are emerging just where a philosopher like Alisdair Macintyre would have suggested: The Anglo-catholics represent the Catholic/Aristotelian tendency, the evangelicals represent the Enlightenment/modern tendency, and the liberals represent the Nietzschian/postmodern tendency.
People are often surprised to see things like biblical literalism and evangelicalism identified with modernity, but it makes sense.
Why did no-one before Bishop Usher use Genesis to calculate the age of the earth at 6000 years? Because the hermeneutical assumptions behind such a move weren't in place until the early modern period. To use another illustration, it is remarkable that Richard Dawkins and biblical literalists are united in their key assumption: that Scripture should be read as a science textbook.
Once all of this nonsense goes, we'll have a showdown between the Nietzschians and the Catholics. It should be quite a ride. Islam will be the wild card.
Relax Dave boy -- I get called a crypto-papist on that blog all the time!
It's a nice counterweight to what I get called here all the time.
Be assured, and speaking of the same old same old, that another, or rather the same once again, list of "oh that's not what the church really teaches" impresses no-one except those already impressed. Amazing how with these supposedly divinely guaranteed teachers you guys have to spend so much time saying what the church doesn't teach.
Most Lutheran church bodies aren't worthy of the name. Sorry, that's just the way it is. They have compromised Lutheran faith for a modern parody just as the Roman church has with Catholicism. They will eventually find union, since they are already united in rejection of historic faith in any form. The Great Whore is gathering all her brothels into one unholy business. Christians, however they may disagree on things, should have absolutely none of it.
A person who asserts false doctrine is no witness to Christ. There is no charity in saying your false doctrine is OK, it's fine to teach as Christ's teaching what Christ didn't teach. We are to have nothing to do with false teachers. One may be right or wrong about what is true and false doctrine, that is another issue. But it is sun-clear that false teachers are to be avoided. That is changed only be changing one's mind on doctrine, not on saying oh it's OK ...
Now for a little Nietzsche, the only philosopher worth reading. At least he is what he is. Not something else thinking it's Catholic, or Lutheran, or Anglican/Reformed/Lutheran, or whatever.
PE, no one has accused you of being a crypto-papist. It's just that your muddled mind cannot differentiate between a crypto-papist and the catholic Lutheran. So, you end up being an apologist for the crypto-papists. When I refer to SSP-types, I am not referring to you. So, take note.
Another thing: The Great Whore existed then just as it exists now. It existed in Trent, Vatican 1as much as it existed at Vatican 2. A point worth remembering.
Christine,
Have you not also read that there is a such a thing LINOs? Just to remind you ...
And on Mary, of course she is the ever-virgin, of course she is the Mother of God, but was she conceived without the stain of sin? No.
Was she bodily assumed into heaven? We do not know at all.
Why make something which has no Scriptural warrant into dogma?
Let me ask you this: Who the hell is the pope that he should sit in judgment over Scripture? Something worth pondering.
Judas with a pork sandwich and a glass of milk.
An Anglican/Reformed/Lutheran calls me muddled, and right here on Der Schuetzmeister's blog before all these Tiber swimming types.
God bless me sideways, there's only one way to swim the Tiber, and that's out.
Pray the Memorare. Well, silently, in case agents from the Intergalactic Congregation for the Observance of Vatican II are around. Is that one Christian asking another to pray for him?
Remember, O most gracious almost deacon Dave, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thy intercession, was left unaided. Inspired with this confidence I fly unto thee, O Tiber swimmers of Tiber swimmers, my Brother. To thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Brother of the Come Home crowd, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy, hear and answer me.
Bless us and save us, Mrs O'Davis.
Heh, both PE and my venerable self corrected on this blog by Augustinian Successor! Does it get any better than this ?? :)
Sorry, AS, I still don't get that Anglican/Reformed/Lutheran thing. Too many letters!
David, your observations about your mom are lovely. My own dear mother has just about gone fully down that sorrowful road that is Alzheimer's but when she passes from this vale of tears into the glorious presence of her Redeemer I shall surely ask for her prayers.
Perhaps David and I were both latent Catholics as children. My parents put me in a Catholic kindergarten as a child (this was in Europe) and the good Sisters (and they were wonderful) chose me to play the Virgin Mary in the Christmas play.
It was just meant to be !!
LOL!
If any thread ever proved protestants are insane, it's this one!
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