Friday, September 05, 2008

Missale Romanum 2002 on the web!

Many thanks to an anonymous blogger who wrote in response to a very old post on this blog to say that the complete text of the Missale Romanum editio typica tertia (in Latin) is available online at: http://www.clerus.org/bibliaclerusonline/pt/f4.htm

Small hint for folk who are used to finding the ordinary of the mass at the beginning of the book: it begins on page 503. The introductory chapters are the new (and currently in force) 2002 GIRM.

Now all we need are the English translations (a reminder that the draft of English translation of the Ordinary of the Mass can be found on the USCCB website here).

[And anything negative you have to say PE will be deleted immediately. I am just warning you...]

15 Comments:

At Saturday, September 06, 2008 12:54:00 am , Blogger Joshua said...

Thanks be, David, that you'll keep us delivered from the all-too-familiar bitter comments of a certain person (regards to him, BTW).

 
At Saturday, September 06, 2008 1:39:00 am , Anonymous Christine said...

I've stated this elsewhere but from the English texts I've skimmed on the USCCB website I am simply delighted.

 
At Saturday, September 06, 2008 11:59:00 am , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't know why Catholics would want to hear the Mass in Latin. At one time Latin was the language of the people, but times have changed. Actually the Mass would be better off in German.

 
At Saturday, September 06, 2008 2:31:00 pm , Blogger Schütz said...

Why do Catholics like the Mass in Latin? Well, because they're Catholic, I guess. By which I mean two things:

1) It's an identity thing. Anglicans have the mass in English. Greek Orthodox have the Mass in Greek. Syrians have the mass in Arabic. Catholics have Mass in Latin.

2) But also because they ARE "Catholic" - Catholics, unlike any other group of Christians, are not identified with any one nation. The Latin Language has the benefit of being a universal language that favours no nation (eg. Note how, at least in the early days, Taize used Latin to speak to all nations).

I think it was really brave of the Church to try to use Latin at World Youth Day, for instance. It didn't really work, in the end, but that was mainly because the musical settings didn't encourage it.

 
At Saturday, September 06, 2008 4:47:00 pm , Blogger Joshua said...

Anon., why not ask a Catholic (e.g. me!) who prefers to attend Mass in Latin?

If you know anything of religions throughout the world, you should know that many if not most use a sacred language.

It is rather provincial and naive to assume that worship must or should be in the vernacular, let alone "because times have changed" - what does that prove? That you can quote the progressivist fallacy?

Not wishing to be rude, but really, ignorance ill-becomes a person.

I prefer Mass in Latin for two reasons: primarily, because I attend the Extraordinary Form of the Mass, which is only celebrated in Latin, and which I honestly believe, after much study and attendance, to provide a worthier, deeper, more content-rich and more reverent mode of worship of Almighty God, to the greater benefit of His people. Secondarily, I attend it because I have some command of Latin, and so can more or less follow the Mass even without a book; whereas, while I also like the Byzantine Rite, if I were to attend a Russian or Greek service I would find it less immediately comprehensible.

It must be remembered that Catholics (and others) do not attend Mass in Latin (or whatever) and dumbly sit through it in incomprehension: on the contrary, I confidently assert that Catholics choosing the Latin Mass make a far greater effort to attend to the Holy Mysteries, using their bilingual missals and their prayerful attention to the ceremonies, than do many a most mediocre, suburban Mass crowd. Those at the Latin Mass are there because Mass really means a lot to them, and they would be indignant at any suggestion that they were anything but devoutly attentive. Contrast that with the blank apathy in other quarters of the Church!

And why do you suggest German instead? Surely Greek or Hebrew would be more obvious choices!

 
At Monday, September 08, 2008 10:59:00 am , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Joshua

Well said.

It is one of the great myths that Mass in a sacred language like Latin is not understood.

On the contrary, the little bit of extra work one requires makes you understand it even better.

David, I don't agree that Latin at the WYD Masses did not work. Where I was standing, everyone responded whenever Latin was used. Not a problem.

I think many people just think it's a problem when it's not.

We are missing something else: Latin is a beautiful language. It's also THE language of the Church's own music: Gregorian Chant. Adapting the Gregorian to the vernacular is always forced, because it never quite fits.

Rumour has it that the competent Vatican authorities are currently studying the possiblity of reclaiming Latin for the Eurcharistic Prayers as mandatory. Let's hope so.

Finally, and I'm going out on a limb here, but I doubt there will be much demand for Mass in the vernacular in 50 years time. And I think we all know why.

 
At Monday, September 08, 2008 2:00:00 pm , Blogger Schütz said...

Where were you standing, Anon? Didn't seem to work in my area (F5 - about the middle of the racecourse). Which is just an observation - not a challenge to a fight!

 
At Monday, September 08, 2008 4:50:00 pm , Anonymous Anonymous said...

David: I think in the end I was standing in a B area to the right of the Altar, but on the inside track not far from the road the Popemobile travelled.

 
At Tuesday, September 09, 2008 1:11:00 am , Anonymous Christine said...

I don't know why Catholics would want to hear the Mass in Latin.

There is a nobility and beauty to Latin that doesn't always exist in English, which is a hybrid of many languages.

Listen to Gregorian chant or sacred polyphony in Latin, especially the music to Tomás Luis de Victoria. It's magnificent.

 
At Tuesday, September 09, 2008 11:21:00 am , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Christine: not that the many parish choirs around Melbourne or Australia are going to let you listen to Gregorian Chant or Victoria. The question is: why?

 
At Tuesday, September 09, 2008 5:01:00 pm , Blogger Louise said...

Latin is not a sacred language, it just happens to be the language of the Church. Which is why I love it.

I was glad to have the Latin at WYD. Did it "work"? Don't know how to answer such a question, but I liked it.

 
At Tuesday, September 09, 2008 11:43:00 pm , Anonymous Christine said...

Christine: not that the many parish choirs around Melbourne or Australia are going to let you listen to Gregorian Chant or Victoria. The question is: why?

Well, not being familiar with the Australian scene I can't comment on that but that's true of some parishes in the U.S. also. My parish choir, on the other hand, did a wonderful job of singing Latin when the Bishop came to celebrate Mass!

It's going to take time to turn things around. I recently had a rather lengthy letter published in my diocesan paper. My husband, who was raised Catholic and attended parochial schools all his life asked me to read it to him. When I was done he said quietly "I was raised Catholic but you know more about the Catholic faith than I do." When he was going to school the good sisters who taught him did not encourage questions.

That, I would submit, is part of the problem, especially since Vatican II. It was not uniformly implemented and too many of the laity have not been taught the documents of the Council and what they actually said. Latin is STILL the official language of the Church and it has amazed bishops in the U.S. when they see the significant number of young families who are attending the Extraordinary Rite where it is offered (and I am by no means here saying I have a problem with vernacular liturgies).

Meanwhile, lay people should get off their duffs and educate themselves a bit about the Church's rich heritage. There's plenty of wonderful CDs out there with chant, polyphony, etc. so they can reacquaint themselves. My diocesan Cathedral has a fantastic choir that offers both traditional and contemporary hymns.

It's also not a bad idea to attend liturgies in a monastic setting once in a while, where one can have the opportunity to hear Latin.

And lay people should not be afraid to make their wishes (respectfully) known when they have legitimate issues. I'm not shy about writing the Bishop or calling my pastor.

 
At Wednesday, September 10, 2008 11:19:00 am , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Christine: Thanks, I didn't realise you were a US reader.

I think you are right to point out the lack of general education among laity AND priests!

We have a ridiculous scenario:

1. plenty of priests and laity have no idea what VAtican II wanted, so Latin, Gregorian Chant, proper vestments etc are things they think the church legitimately threw out and - if they are done in Rome - it's because Rome is different

2. plenty of priets and laity know full well what Vatican II wanted, but, because they wish to change the Church's liturgy to reflect a faith in something other than the Church's Catholic faith, they effectively prohibit the use of any of those things.

3. we also have a bunch of neo-cons for want of a better description, who are orthodox, but divorced of the Church's liturgical tradition and who see those other things as too-pre-Vatican II to be worthwhile.

We have a lot of work to do.

 
At Wednesday, September 10, 2008 10:59:00 pm , Anonymous Christine said...

Yes, Anonymous, we do have a lot of work to do. But I'm seeing more and more hopeful signs.

I have to put a plug in for the ladies of the Altar & Rosary Society at my parish. Through various parish fundraisers they have purchased some beautiful vestments for our priests. The new vestments our pastor wore on the Feast of the Assumption were just magnificent.

By the way, I am an Australian by adoption. When my family left Europe we sojourned in Australia for three years, in Adelaide and Mildura.

Maybe someday I'll get back for a visit!

 
At Friday, February 20, 2009 8:34:00 am , Blogger RC said...

The clerus.org site seems to have reorganized things somewhat, so the link above no longer works. Instead, try here:
http://www.clerus.org/bibliaclerusonline/DE/hs.htm

 

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